Don't believe the hype (perfection)

ph2t · Post by **ph2t** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:16 pm

viperdout wrote:Yea, RPMs.

yeah, I dunno man. Check out Namuna's RPM test thread in this sub-forum. Maybee the info is in there!

ph2t.

crazydave · Post by **crazydave** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:28 pm

I think it's interesting how we can have such different opinions about products sometimes, and I've always written it off as varience in quality.

It get even more interesting when you get to experience first hand what the other guy's talking about, and I had a chance to try one of Payaso's 4.2s. I agreed with him that the 4.2 rating was probably bogus, but I thought he was being harsh on the Perfection motors, but he was actually being very fair considering that this motor was such a dog.

So this is my bottom line now. You could take a gamble and get a bunch of cheap Perfection motors, and hope you got a batch of good ones. If you're lucky they'll have decent speed, and good torque, I guess I've been fairly lucky, only a couple duds out of 8 motors so far....or you could spend more for the others, and know you'll get a fast motor, but how long that last is a gamble.

SPORTCAR · Post by **SPORTCAR** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:19 am

I'm very new to having high output cars. I just did up my first 2 ZZ's with the FET mod in the past couple of days (single stack), one's a single cell (200mAh & RS purple), one's a double (Using the SE battery & King 4.2).

Very, Very Fast with the single cell, silly with the dual.

The dual cell car, even with the blue gears and a king 4.2 its uncontrollable except on tight pile carpet where it can go straightish (any turn and the car rolls). On linoleum or super-flat warehouse floor the car literally does spontaneous donuts, sometimes left, sometimes right, depending on chaos theory, I'm guessing. I've cracked a body up already when the car veered into the quarter round on my baseboard. Red gears are useful for spinning out with a higher pitched wheel slip-out sound. The softest 'normal' tires I've found (pink toyeast) still slip hugely.

Its not much better with silicon slot car like tires. And the ones I've got are about 1cm wide each and very grippy (normally) running on the blue gear.

My favourite mod now is a D guitar string antenna: it sometimes bounces the car back up onto its wheels when I turn.
I'm thinking I've gone too far with the LiPo batteries I've got ordered.

I suppose what I'm asking, to get myself back on topic (pls. excuse my excitement!), is what does the motor matter when any of the high end ones mentioned will produce results way beyond what the car can possibly use? Why not just buy the $4 one? It seems to coast alright...

For torque, it does (backup & go) wheelies. Heck, you can pinch the back wheels with the car in the air hanging down, hit go on the remote, and it'll pick itself up vertical without a problem.

Now to figure out how to control the power... SE?

[/i]

hue35 · Post by **hue35** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:25 pm

Experiment more with tires and gears. Clean, grippy tires on the back and harder tires on the front is a good high-speed combination. The hard tires provide a bit of understeer which makes for more control. You'll have to slow down to make tight corners (just like a real car), but it will drive much straighter and it won't flip when you turn (it will just turn really wide at high speeds). Make sure the floor you are driving on is clean as well.

It sounds like you could use less torque, which will also give you more control because of the softer acceleration curve. Try to find a K.I.T. Racer or a Bit Racer... those gear ratios provide way less torque and way more top end.

Another important factor in handling at high speed is the slop in the rear axle (search for Hogjowlz's epoxy mod). Basically, if you pack the rear axle with epoxy putty, it will eliminate all of the slop and the car will drive straighter at high speeds. It's a little scary the first time (do I really want to glue the axle to the chassis?), but I think it makes all the difference for a dual-celled (or better) car. When the epoxy starts to set up, spin the wheels free. But, be careful not to pry up or down while the epoxy is soft because it will create slop again. Just alternate between forward and backward a few times with the remote while holding the car off the ground. When the epoxy is fully cured, run a full charge or two like that, but this time squirt some graphite in there (Lock-Ease works well, because the liquid evaporates)... eventually you'll have a free-spinning rear axle with no slop.

It takes a bit to harness all of that power, but it's worth it.

ph2t · Post by **ph2t** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:06 pm

hue35 wrote:Experiment more with tires and gears. Clean, grippy tires on the back and harder tires on the front is a good high-speed combination. The hard tires provide a bit of understeer which makes for more control. You'll have to slow down to make tight corners (just like a real car), but it will drive much straighter and it won't flip when you turn (it will just turn really wide at high speeds). Make sure the floor you are driving on is clean as well.

It sounds like you could use less torque, which will also give you more control because of the softer acceleration curve. Try to find a K.I.T. Racer or a Bit Racer... those gear ratios provide way less torque and way more top end.

Another important factor in handling at high speed is the slop in the rear axle (search for Hogjowlz's epoxy mod). Basically, if you pack the rear axle with epoxy putty, it will eliminate all of the slop and the car will drive straighter at high speeds. It's a little scary the first time (do I really want to glue the axle to the chassis?), but I think it makes all the difference for a dual-celled (or better) car. When the epoxy starts to set up, spin the wheels free. But, be careful not to pry up or down while the epoxy is soft because it will create slop again. Just alternate between forward and backward a few times with the remote while holding the car off the ground. When the epoxy is fully cured, run a full charge or two like that, but this time squirt some graphite in there (Lock-Ease works well, because the liquid evaporates)... eventually you'll have a free-spinning rear axle with no slop.

It takes a bit to harness all of that power, but it's worth it.

this sounds really interesting, never heard of this mod before. Can you remove the axle afterwards? got a link? (terrible newb statement I know)

ph2t.

SPORTCAR · Post by **SPORTCAR** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:13 pm

http://bitpimps.lixlink.com/pages/phpFo ... ght=jbweld
is a good link for more on the epoxy axel. I've held off since I want a removeable rear gear until I figure out the best set up for the linoleum race course at my work...

Any idea where I can buy Kit/Bit gears? Never seen these at my LHS or anywhere else.

I'm seriously thinking about experimenting with a resistor/capacitor on the motor to allow the voltage to ramp up at a reasonable level. Ever heard of anyone trying this? This could be one amazing performance enhancer. Otherwize, I've just got to keep waiting for my uA SE...

SuperFly · Post by **SuperFly** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:43 pm

ph2t wrote:
hue35 wrote:Experiment more with tires and gears. Clean, grippy tires on the back and harder tires on the front is a good high-speed combination. The hard tires provide a bit of understeer which makes for more control. You'll have to slow down to make tight corners (just like a real car), but it will drive much straighter and it won't flip when you turn (it will just turn really wide at high speeds). Make sure the floor you are driving on is clean as well.

It sounds like you could use less torque, which will also give you more control because of the softer acceleration curve. Try to find a K.I.T. Racer or a Bit Racer... those gear ratios provide way less torque and way more top end.

Another important factor in handling at high speed is the slop in the rear axle (search for Hogjowlz's epoxy mod). Basically, if you pack the rear axle with epoxy putty, it will eliminate all of the slop and the car will drive straighter at high speeds. It's a little scary the first time (do I really want to glue the axle to the chassis?), but I think it makes all the difference for a dual-celled (or better) car. When the epoxy starts to set up, spin the wheels free. But, be careful not to pry up or down while the epoxy is soft because it will create slop again. Just alternate between forward and backward a few times with the remote while holding the car off the ground. When the epoxy is fully cured, run a full charge or two like that, but this time squirt some graphite in there (Lock-Ease works well, because the liquid evaporates)... eventually you'll have a free-spinning rear axle with no slop.

It takes a bit to harness all of that power, but it's worth it.
this sounds really interesting, never heard of this mod before. Can you remove the axle afterwards? got a link? (terrible newb statement I know)

ph2t.

This is what Hogjowlz is usually talking about when referring to JBWeld. My first dual-cell car had this problem of shooting to the right upon start from a stop. It couldn't be corrected by adjusting the steering because the car already ran straight once it was moving. This mod fixed the problem. Basically when the massive (relatively) amount of torque was hitting the gears and axle, it would cause the axle to pivot away from the power in whatever "slop" space was available in the axle hangar. By eliminating the slop, you eliminate the torque steer. The car also will run much more quietly.

Incidentally, the thing that allowed me to figure out the problem was experience flying WWII airplane sims. Single prop aircraft require countermeasures to offset the torque of the propeller twisting the plane in the opposite direction. Certain planes with badass engines (F4U Corsair, for example) will flip upside down if you apply full power all at once from a dead stop.

SPORTCAR · Post by **SPORTCAR** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:01 am

I'm going to try this tomorrow. I bought some .047" 'axel rod" (music wire) to make my little differentials. Since the changing gears thing is important to me, I think I'm going to have to figure out how to make a side-slide-out axel (i.e. removeable wheel), perhaps mount the wheel with hotmelt glue or thread it and use a nut from a 'finger board' skateboard truck. Or, micro drill and wire it (.010 "cotter pin"...)

ph2t · Post by **ph2t** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:34 am

some good ideas dude, yeah I'm not sure myself how you would attain the ability to be able to change over axels after doing this mod, oh well. Will definately do this on a test chassis first......

Well I've bit the bullet and I've placed an order for the 3.8 bit-charg motors at tinytc, fingers crossed.

I also ordered the R-Spec II Motor , anyone have any comments on this motor?

cheers,

ph2t.

crazydave · Post by **crazydave** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:47 am

ph2t wrote:I also ordered the R-Spec II Motor , anyone have any comments on this motor?

It's very similar to the 3.8. It has more midband power, so it accelerates quicker than the 3.8, with a slight trade off in top speed, but it's still a bit of a dog off the line, and without FETs I'd reccomend the 12:1 gearing with it.

Son_Gokou · Post by **Son_Gokou** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:09 am

Hmmm.....well,

Some people say that the Phast motor from RCmod.com is very fast, and can whoop the 3.8's or whatever. Has anyone actually tried this for themselves? And, does it actually have that much torque in it?

And, as for the Perfection motors, or the Extreme Micros, which is better? I'm thinking of getting one from Extreme Micros, but I'm not sure.

SPORTCAR · Post by **SPORTCAR** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:32 am

I read Extreme Micro is no longer filling retail orders.

hue35 · Post by **hue35** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:05 pm

ph2t wrote:I also ordered the R-Spec II Motor , anyone have any comments on this motor?

I haven't been too impressed with the R-Spec II. My first motor was a dud but tiny replaced it right away. The second motor seemed to work as it should... I agree with crazydave's review. The one thing that keeps it out of my cars is that it doesn't coast. When you let off the accelerator, it brakes hard and usually spins out. I like a motor that will coast... tiny's Formula 34 motor is, by far, the best coaster I have. The Perfection motors are also decent coasters.

crazydave · Post by **crazydave** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:05 pm

hue35 wrote:
ph2t wrote:I also ordered the R-Spec II Motor , anyone have any comments on this motor?
I haven't been too impressed with the R-Spec II. My first motor was a dud but tiny replaced it right away. The second motor seemed to work as it should... I agree with crazydave's review. The one thing that keeps it out of my cars is that it doesn't coast. When you let off the accelerator, it brakes hard and usually spins out. I like a motor that will coast... tiny's Formula 34 motor is, by far, the best coaster I have. The Perfection motors are also decent coasters.

So you're like that too, you like your cars to coast. I like that cause I tap the on the throttle like crazy going through corners, and it just looks silly watching the car jerk through the corner, beside losing speed.

At any rate I haven't really noticed that with my R-SpecII. Have you tried taking the pinion off, and running down a couple batteries with no load to help break it in? that really seems to help with high RPM, low torque motors.

hue35 · Post by **hue35** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:53 pm

crazydave wrote:Have you tried taking the pinion off, and running down a couple batteries with no load to help break it in? that really seems to help with high RPM, low torque motors.

I'm gonna try that... I've heard y'all talkin' about breaking in motors, but I've never done it. If I've run several laps (a couple of charges) with that motor, is it too late or will it still help to break it in?